Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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question about partial blocking and page creation

There's a discussion at ANI right now that is heading in the direction of banning a user from creating new articles, a sub-proposal has emerged to allow them to use WP:AFC instead. My question would be this: if you check the "Creating new pages and uploading new files" is that sitewide or will it only apply to the namespace selected for the partial block? Or would we have to just consider it an traditional topic ban with no technical implementation? Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:22, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Just Step Sideways that is a sitewide control. The 'namespace' blocks are only about editing. — xaosflux ^Talk 23:39, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I kinda figured that was the answer, thanks. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae will trout me for suggesting this: Edit Filter to stop that editor from creating new articles in the mainspace. (But no, don't please. If the editor has no self-control after the consensus to topic ban them, they might just earn a ticket to being blocked.) – robertsky (talk) 14:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit filters are expensive in terms of performance when submitting an edit, and of maintaining them, so should not typically be written to stop a single user from doing something. So yes, probably better to have the user just exercise some self-control :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 14:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

+2. abusefilter shouldn't be used to restrict a single named user. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:32, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

+3, though I have no idea which user you're referring to (I don't frequent AN/ANI). Presumably the solution to this is just to tell the user to stop creating articles in mainspace, enforced via a block of sitewide page creation if they continue in spite of a ban. A bit more than the ban would be covered, but it would undoubtedly enforce the ban. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 01:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Import taxonomy templates

is there a way to import all the taxonomy templates to a different wikipedia project (eg: Sinhala wikipedia) in one go? I've been manually making one by one when someone make a new article for an animal or plant and the infobox error popup saying missing template. There's no translation of names going on since they're are scientific names and in rare cases they get directed to the same name written in local letters. it there a way to import all these way easier so later ppl can make the relevant missing article pages of clades, genus, families etc and not have to copy paste each template one by one. Hope i was clear VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 09:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The ability of other Wikipedias to use the taxonomy templates comes up quite often. There are currently 119k taxonomy templates. I assume one could get a list using the API, but don't know if that can be used get a bulk download and then import them elsewhere. There is a category: Category:Taxonomy_templates.  —  Jts1882 | talk  13:22, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I've done a little research and think it can be done in two steps.

• First, export the taxonomy templates from English Wikipedia to an XML file. Use Special:Export and export file from Category:Taxonomy_templates. I tested this and downloaded a 4Mb file.
• Second, import into target wikipedia. This needs special permissions so only can be done by an administrator. I can't even access the page to see the options, but I assume there is an option to import the downloaded XML file.

Hope this helps. I would be interested in knowing if it works as we often get asked about interwike use on the automated taxobox talk pages.  —  Jts1882 | talk  16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Do keep in mind that English Wikipedia doesn't have taxonomy templates for all taxa with articles (let alone the taxa that don't have articles). There are around 20,000 taxa with articles that don't have a taxonomy template yet. Plantdrew (talk) 20:49, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I see. Noted VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 05:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

So i asked for importer/inter wiki importer rights from an admin there, they said they don't have power to give me that right but a steward can. where can i find stewards VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 05:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

To receive importer rights yourself, you would first need to make a request on your wiki to demonstrate there is consensus for you to be given this permission. This request must meet the requirements laid out in meta:Steward requests/Permissions/Minimum voting requirements § Temporary Importer (per meta:Importer, permanent importer access will not be granted unless the local community has a policy specifically allowing it). As an example, the most recent request for importer access on enwiki is here, though that was a request for permanent access. Then, you would file a request to the stewards at meta:SRP. Note that this is a very sensitive permission—it essentially gives the ability to add fake edits to a page's history—so standards for granting it are (or at least should be) high.

If you don't anticipate using this permission frequently, I believe you could instead start a discussion on your wiki seeking approval for these specific imports. If that discussion were successful, you would then file a request at meta:SRM for a steward to handle the imports. The other alternative, which avoids the issue of import permissions entirely, would be to have a bot copy the templates to your wiki (subject to your local bot policy, of course). 50.223.140.130 (talk) 07:55, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. A steward handling the imports sounds better. Ill try that way. Safer too. VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 08:31, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

That should work, but note that importing from an XML file can only be done by importers (or more specifically, users with the importupload right); other admins can only import via an interwiki, which can only do one page at a time. 50.223.140.130 (talk) 07:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Syncing across different wikis

Is there a way to sync template/list contents across wikis?
Eg: Template:Totd, Imagine another wikiproject has this template too, is there a code we can enter so whatever that is updated/added/changed/showed in the Template on the english wiki also updates/adds/changes/shows on the other wiki through their template. Gonna be useful for things like technical news, Totd etc VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 11:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a long-standing wish, see phab:T121470. CMD (talk) 13:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh maaaan. Thanks btw VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 05:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

@VihirLak007 There was a bot providing this functionality, but I think it broke. I think now this functionality only syncs Modules (which makes sense, cause these are easier to make language and wiki independent than templates). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

There are two aspects of this, one is the global template wiki/synchronization, the other is multilingual support. Usually modules with '/config' or '/configuration' sub pages are easier to sync, as the multilingual settings and translations are on those config pages. Then on top of that you have modules changing the arguments, prompting a change in the transclusions on all of the wikis. So, not a copy/paste job. Snævar (talk) 14:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Problems with dark mode

Class mw-no-invert, used to ensure that colors display correctly in dark mode, does not seem to work on International Fujita scale anywhere except in the side tables titled "Tornado rating classifications". –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The page looks great to me in dark mode (Brave browser on Mac OS). Can you give a specific example of one part of the article that does not display as expected? What part of the article, what is it doing, and what were you hoping it would do? – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:29, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

LaundryPizza03, I'm not seeing |class="mw-no-invert" in e.g. the table at International Fujita scale § Three second measurement. The right-floated "Tornado classification" tables at e.g. § 2018 version do include it, and display as presumably intended (differently, at least).

I think the inverted colours look fine— in fact I'd characterise them as "more interesting" than the played-out yellow–red gradient typically employed. This is good since Template:Storm colour has like 5300 transclusions. Folly Mox (talk) 13:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, it occurred to me earlier (when I was already too late to work to type it out) that since most of these storm insensity colours are realised as bgcolor="#{{storm colour|value}}", someone could modify {{Storm colour}} to output after the hex string retrieved from Module:Storm categories/categories " class="mw-no-invert. Of course, this is bad design, and will probably break (or at least upset the linter about) some subset of transclusions called without enclosing quotes, or which already contain a |class= parameter in the table cell style. Should alter all the articles in one go, though. Folly Mox (talk) 17:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Script error on mobile causing headings to stop rendering

If you check https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election on Chrome with developer tools and Galaxy S20 turned on, no headings under Results render, and the debugger pauses on a jQuery error. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The headings should be fixed now. Not sure of the jQuery error. It might be from a user script. – Ammarpad (talk) 22:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Font color not changing in infoboxes when darkmode is turned on

On sinhala wiki few infoboxes doesn't change font color to white in darkmode, so they aren't readable. How to fix this and where to exacly find the code which determine the font color according to the mode a user is using? If its possible can someone fix?

• The infoboxe that have the issue in this matter:
  • Template:ඡන්ද විමසීම තොරතුරු පැනලය (infobox election)
  • Template:ඡන්ද විමසීම තොරතුරු පැනලය/styles.css

VihirLak007^hmu!/_duh. 07:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

si:මාධ්‍යවිකි:Common.css has hardcoded colors, I would start there and replace them with Codex tokens as per mw:Recommendations for night mode compatibility on Wikimedia wikis. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 08:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Way to enforce a ban from article creation using the software?

Looking at this ANI case, I wonder if there is a way to enforce a ban from creating pages from the software, as if the user under sanction had lost their autoconfirmation (but without losing the ability to edit semi-protected pages). This could also be extended to other namespaces, such as the Draft: or User: namespace if necessary. FMecha (to talk|to see log) 18:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

It is technically possible to partial block from creating any type of page. It is technically possible to partial block from editing the entire article namespace. Anything else could be done only using an edit filter, which is generally not done in this situation.

Restrictions that are so simple a computer could (even in theory) enforce them are rare - the community tends to rely on topic bans which are inherently subjective in nature, so I don't think it's worth spending time coding up any new MediaWiki features to implement this. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:27, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Creating a new set of templates for STV elections

Hi folks. I am currently trying to put together a new set of templates for STV elections.

The templates would be primarily intended for use in Northern Ireland elections, where there are three blocs (unionist, nationalist and 'other'), but they could be adapted to other contexts.

By way of illustration, here is the 2022 Assembly election result for the West Tyrone constituency, as it appears on Wikipedia currently.

2022 Assembly election: West Tyrone – 5 seats

Party		Candidate	FPv%	Count
				1	2	3	4	5	6
	Sinn Féin	Nicola Brogan	18.75%	8,626
	SDLP	Daniel McCrossan	11.92%	5,483	5,555	5,849	6,330	6,508	8,288
	DUP	Thomas Buchanan	14.44%	6,640	6,642	6,739	6,751	7,634	7,798
	Sinn Féin	Maoliosa McHugh	14.48%	6,658	7,047	7,189	7,567	7,571	7,731
	Sinn Féin	Declan McAleer	13.79%	6,343	6,731	6,888	7,111	7,113	7,592
	TUV	Trevor Clarke	9.06%	4,166	4,166	4,199	4,207	4,704	4,885
	Alliance	Stephen Donnelly	6.45%	2,967	3,026	3,327	3,476	3,777
	UUP	Ian Marshall	4.08%	1,876	1,877	1,911	1,918
	Independent	Paul Gallagher	3.66%	1,682	1,688	1,895
	Aontú	James Hope	1.43%	657	661
	People Before Profit	Carol Gallagher	0.77%	354	358
	Green (NI)	Susan Glass	0.55%	252	255
	Socialist Party	Amy Ferguson	0.37%	171	173
	Independent	Barry Brown	0.26%	119	125
Electorate: 69,702   Valid: 45,994 (65.99%)   Spoilt: 635   Quota: 7,666   Turnout: 46,629 (66.90%)

This is how I'd like the template to look - and also how I'd like all templates to look for all Northern Ireland STV election results.

2022 Assembly election – West Tyrone: 5 seats Party Candidate FPv% Count 1 2 3 4 5 6 N SF Nicola Brogan 18.75% 8,626           N SDLP Daniel McCrossan 11.92% 5,483 5,555 5,849 6,330 6,508 8,288 U DUP Thomas Buchanan 14.44% 6,640 6,642 6,739 6,751 7,634 7,798 N SF Maoliosa McHugh 14.48% 6,658 7,047 7,189 7,567 7,571 7,731 N SF Declan McAleer 13.79% 6,343 6,731 6,888 7,111 7,113 7,592 U TUV Trevor Clarke 9.06% 4,166 4,166 4,199 4,207 4,704 4,885 O APNI Stephen Donnelly 6.45% 2,967 3,026 3,327 3,476 3,777   U UUP Ian Marshall 4.08% 1,876 1,877 1,911 1,918     N Ind Paul Gallagher 3.66% 1,682 1,688 1,895       N Aontú James Hope 1.43% 657 661         O PBP Carol Gallagher 0.77% 354 358         O Green (NI) Susan Glass 0.55% 252 255         O SP Amy Ferguson 0.37% 171 173         O Ind Barry Brown 0.26% 119 125

Results by party Party S ± FPv ± % ±% N SF 3 - 21,627 +306 47.02 -1.08 U DUP 1 - 6,640 -2,424 14.44 -6.01 N SDLP 1 - 5,483 -800 11.92 -2.25 U TUV - - 4,166 +3,315 9.06 +7.14 O AP - - 2,967 +1,715 6.45 +3.63 U UUP - - 1,876 -1,778 4.08 -4.16 N Ind. - - 1,682 +720 3.66 +1.49 N AO - - 657 +657 1.43 +1.43 O PBP - - 354 +354 0.77 +0.77 O GP - - 252 -160 0.55 -0.38 O SP - - 171 +171 0.37 +0.37 O Ind. - - 119 +34 0.26 +0.07 O CISTA - - N/A -373 N/A -0.84 U Ind. - - N/A -41 N/A -0.09 U Con - - N/A -27 N/A -0.06 Party majority 14,987 +2,730 32.58 +4.93 N SF plurality Swing +2.47%

Results by bloc Bloc S ± FPv ± % ±% N 4 - 29,449 +883 64.03 -0.41 U 1 - 12,682 -955 27.57 -3.20 O - - 3,863 +1,741 8.40 +3.61 X - - - - - - Bloc majority 16,767 +1,838 36.45 +2.77 Nat. majority Swing +1.40 No. ± % ±% Electors 69,702 +5,444 100 +8.47 Turnout 46,629 +1,722 66.90 -2.99 Spoilt 635 +53 0.91 ±0.00 Valid 45,994 +1,669 65.99 -2.99 Seats 5 - 100 - Quota 7,666 +278 16.67 - No change in seats between parties / blocs SF: Brogan replaces McElduff following co-options SF: McHugh replaces Boyle following co-option

Note that I would also want party colour and bloc colour to display in the 'Results by party', 'Results by bloc', and summary pane at the bottom-right also, and I'd probably prefer that the abbreviations for each party display, rather than each party's short name (I've free-typed the abbreviations in the middle panel, but the actual abbreviations differ).

Note the following additions:

1. Each candidate and party would have its bloc listed (unionist, nationalist or 'other'). There would also be an 'unclassified' option (denoted by an X), intended for obscure independents whose alignment cannot be determined through any sources.
2. Total first preference vote count and vote share, and change thereof from the last election, would be shown for each party and each bloc, rather than only explicitly showing vote count/vote share for each individual candidate.
3. 'Party majority' and 'bloc majority' would show the margin between the largest party/bloc in the constituency.
4. 'Swing' between the two largest parties, and also between the two largest blocs, is also shown.
5. The panels note the largest party and largest bloc, and whether they have a plurality or a majority, respectively.
6. A summary of electors, turnout, valid votes, etc is shown, with full percentage breakdowns and numerical/percentage change between that election and the previous one.
7. A summary results panel at the bottom right would indicate whether there have been any changes in seats between parties/blocs, and change in the elected MLAs within each party compared to the previous election.

So far, I've made the templates for the leftmost panel, but not for any of the other panels yet.

To be clear, I'd like to be able to put something together using Lua/the templates, which takes the first preference vote counts from the leftmost table, sums these for each party (and also for independents of each bloc - I do not want independents of different blocs summed collectively), and automatically outputs total vote count and vote share for each party, and also for each bloc, on the relevant panels.

It'd also be cool if the candidate first preference votes can be summed to produce the valid vote, and if the numerical input for electors, turnout, spoilt votes, valid votes etc could be automatically displayed as percentages of the electors figure, and if the quota can automatically be calculated based on the number of seats and valid vote.

References

I'd appreciate any guidance on this, and any constructive feedback on proposed design - I've done the best I can based on what I know but there may be a way to make it look better. Many thanks! PointUnderstander (talk) 18:59, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Change the table around the tables "2022 Assembly election – West Tyrone: 5 seats", "Results by party" and "Results by bloc" to use a div. That way, mobile can throw the tables down the page, whereas there is not available width on mobile for all three. Snævar (talk) 23:56, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Many of these questions about how it looks, what columns should be kept, if new ones should be added is more of a question for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums. This forum is more for how to achive this layout. There is one or more templates that sum up numbers, I am not keeping enough track of them to know which ones. Snævar (talk) 10:49, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Snævar, That way, mobile can throw the tables down the page - and desktop. — Qwerfjkltalk 11:11, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Republican Party's infobox

I can't get any response at the page-in-question, so maybe I can get help here. Over at the Republican Party (United States) page, the infobox is failing to show Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell. Even though you do see him in the edit-window. GoodDay (talk) 19:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't see McConnell in the edit window in the context of the infobox. Izno (talk) 21:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

@Izno: I re-added him & now the infobox won't show the House Majority leader, Steve Scalise. GoodDay (talk) 23:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I believe I found the solution. I lowered the leaders' entries from 1-6 to 0-5. GoodDay (talk) 23:14, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Sanskrit

Hello,

There are some issues with the templates in the header of the page. No clear idea of what the issues could be, but some templates don't seem to exist, or some parameters are wrong.

Thank you 212.195.53.63 (talk) 20:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to ping @Trappist the monk here to double check, but I am pretty sure the issue is that the parameter was never supported. I don't really understand how it wasn't caught before today, which is perhaps the more interesting question I would have. Izno (talk) 21:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

|translit-standard= is not a supported parameter; use |translit-std=. Not caught before today because only today did I update Module:Lang to catch these kinds of unknown parameters.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Search autocomplete selects random results when arrowing down

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T379983

I've recently tried to search a few things, and noticed that if I press arrow down on the autocomplete results, it selects a random result, rather than the expected outcome of it selecting the first in the list (then going down one if pressed again, etcetera). For example, to test this, I typed in "AS" into the search bar, which displayed "AS", "Association football", "Associated Press", "Assassination of John F. Kennedy", among others. I pressed the arrow down, and it highlighted the last result, "ASEAN". I pressed it again, and it highlighted "Asperger syndrome", which is the 6th result in the list, and 4 results up from "ASEAN". This continues for some time, but it generally jumps through the list at random intervals. I checked that I had safemode on before trying this, and I am on the latest version of 64-bit Chrome, version 131.0.6778.70. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 01:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Given the day, by the way, it may be WP:THURSDAY, but I'm not necessarily sure if that indeed is the case. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 01:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Me too, Windows 10 version 22H2, Firefox 132.0.2 (recent upgrade), all skins except Vector-2022 and Minerva Neue, logged in and logged out. The main symptom seems to be that in the search box, the functions of the up and down arrows are exchanged. Also affects commons:. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 01:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

This is probably related to phab:T379983 though of course you can report a separate task. Izno (talk) 01:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks like it, and it appears a change has been merged so this should (hopefully) resolve itself fairly soon. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 01:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm facing the same issue, on Vivaldi (7.0.3495.11 (64-bit)) on Windows 11 Home 23H2. Are you on Wikipedia's 2010 Vector legacy skin (the old default GUI) by any chance? I have this issue on that skin but not on Wikipedia's new Vector skin. Tube·of·Light 11:21, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm having the same issue on Firefox 128.4.0 with Vector 2010 on macOS 12.7.6. – dudhhr ^talk_contribs^she_her 22:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I don’t see anyone mentioning it anywhere, but I am also having the same issue on Timeless. win8x (talking | spying) 14:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@Win8x: As I wrote above, all skins except Vector-2022 and Minerva Neue. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Oops I didn't properly read. Glad a change has been merged though. win8x (talk) 16:53, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Lua help needed at Template:Text diff

The {{Text diff}} template is causing some Linter misnested tag errors that do not appear to be fixable locally in pages. This is not a new problem, but we have fixed most of the high-priority fixable Linter problems and are trying to clean up the last few stubborn cases. I am looking for people with Lua knowledge to help over at Template talk:Text diff#Lint errors. Any clues will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:57, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

What causes these "bot_manager" links?

• search=insource:"botmanager_support@"
• Diffs: diff1, diff2, diff3, diff4
• Filter logs: log (I'm sure I saw other logs a couple days ago, but it's hard to find logs)

What are these links? Something to do with bots? – 2804:F1...F5:391A (::/32) (talk) 17:41, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Radware sells anti DDoS software, I would guess that these editors were using an automated tool to fill in citations (i.e. the automatic citation tool in visual editor), which Radware's software detected as bot traffic and blocked. 86.23.109.101 (talk) 17:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Ah, that does make sense. – 2804:F1...F5:391A (::/32) (talk) 18:05, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Pages with reference errors that trigger visual diffs

There's a redlinked category, Category:Pages with reference errors that trigger visual diffs, suddenly appearing out of nowhere on over 2,000 pages and growing — I came across it with an unrelated edit to another page which didn't have that on it when I started to edit the page, but suddenly did have that on it as soon as I saved my edit, and attempting to "expand templates" on the page failed to identify where it was coming from.

The last time something like this happened, a couple of weeks ago, it was an utterly unhelpful and unwanted Category:Pages using the JsonConfig extension that got created and then speedy-deleted within days as unhelpful and unwanted.

But, of course, pages can't be left sitting in redlinked categories, so this has to either get created or go away. So could somebody look into this, and either create the category right away if it's actually desired or figure out how to make it go away if it isn't? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 21:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

It's listed at Special:TrackingCategories so it's added automatically by MediaWiki and doesn't appear in the wikitext. I have created the category page with display of MediaWiki:Cite-tracking-category-cite-diffing-error-desc which is all I know. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Fished out one page, Brisbane Airport, which has a group reference without a reference list. I suspect that will be a majority of the cases. In the current parser, that note appears not to render in any list, instead an error renders at the bottom of the page. In Parsoid, both it and the error render at the bottom. Izno (talk) 22:28, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Looks to have been a result of activity in the context of phab:T372709 and/or its child phab:T378386. Probably the old parser needs an update to be outputting the same as Parsoid. Izno (talk) 22:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

And others in article space Special:Search/incategory:"Pages with reference errors that trigger visual diffs". Currently just half of a percent of the category's contents. Izno (talk) 22:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is all that was necessary on one randomly-chosen talk page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Does Pending Changes disable edit conflict checking?

I haven't found any documentation about this at Wikipedia:Pending Changes, mw:Help:Extension:FlaggedRevs, mw:Extension:FlaggedRevs, or phab:T185664. (I am an idiot though, and frequently miss obvious information.)

But here's what happened (all these diffs are sequentially uninterrupted BTW): while WP:HD was under PC protection (LTA disruption), T=00 I reply to a thread. T+02 minutes, PrimeHunter replies. T+17 minutes, OP replies to my reply, removing PrimeHunter's reply with no edit summary (edit tagged as "2017 wikitext editor"). A bit later, I notice this and enter the source editor within Minerva to restore PrimeHunter's edit without automatically adding my sig. T+44 PrimeHunter restores the edit. T+46 I do too. Despite the edit summary of my immediate self-revert, I was never shown an edit conflict error (these do work in Minerva: I had three recently at heavily trafficked pages, all in ns4).

My interpretation of this sequence is that since FlaggedRevs are "automatically accepted" when the editor permissions allow, checking for edit conflicts is disabled or hampered in some way, at least in some editing interfaces. Can anyone confirm this? Folly Mox (talk) 18:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, PrimeHunter restored text above the 2 lines :I think this was [...] and :: I haven't had this [...], while you restored it below those 2 lines, that's why there was no edit conflict. I actually don't know the exact logic, though something is mentioned at mw:Help:Edit conflict#Preventing edit conflicts - I've always assumed that it's the same logic that governs if you can still undo a revision after new revisions have been made (which from experience is when the diff of that revision would not have revealed lines that changed in later revisions). – 2804:F1...C6:3070 (::/32) (talk) 22:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

For clarity, here is a multi-revision diff of both of your restorations: Special:Diff/1257208774/1257214231. – 2804:F1...C6:3070 (::/32) (talk) 22:56, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Specify PDF page for thumbnail?

I have uploaded File:More Public Parks (booklet).pdf which I want to link into an article. The problem is, the first few pages of the PDF are boilerplate. I want the thumbnail to show page 6 Is that possible? RoySmith (talk) 18:29, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@RoySmith: See WP:EIS#Page. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:29, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Interesting. That certainly looks like what I need, but for some reason, this PDF isn't showing up as a thumbnail at all. See my original post in this thread and also Special:Diff/1257813566. In both of those, "File:More Public Parks (booklet).pdf" just gets run in with the text. RoySmith (talk) 19:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Doing a quick Wikisource version, even if incomplete, sounds like what you want here. Could link directly to the one page / section you want, that way. (Or if you just want the image, then extracting the image to a separate file on Commons, and showing that.) SnowFire (talk) 20:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

For some reason, we're not properly picking it up from Commons. Compare File:More Public Parks (booklet).pdf, which shows a default PDF icon and says "0 × 0 pixels", with c:File:More Public Parks (booklet).pdf, which shows page 1 and says "810 × 1,350 pixels". --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Even more interesting. Is this the kind of thing that might just take a while to percolate through the system? Is it worth a phab ticket? RoySmith (talk) 20:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Wikisource has the same issue - can't start a transcription there because the "local" version Wikisource sees is empty with 0 pages. Definitely something funky afoot here. SnowFire (talk) 20:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

The thumbnail generating slowly sounds like a thumbor issue to me. At the time of upload pdfs where generating thumbnails in 1.67 seconds. Images do consistently generate faster than pdfs, djvus and tiffs. Some thumbnail sizes are generated immediately, regardless of whether they are in use, 320px is one of those.

Not sure what causes enwiki showing 0pixels and commons showing a thumbnail, but it is definitely not thumbor. Snævar (talk) 00:15, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The problem ended up being solved by purging the enwiki File page. And then purging the pages which included that File. RoySmith (talk) 00:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Hmmm, I managed it alright using

[[File:Lewis Carroll - Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.djvu|page=117|thumb|Some of my friends, yesterday]]

at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 228#Indentation. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Sortable table: "Short" text for merged cells?

This comes up from time to time - with merged cells there is often a huge size difference in the default-sort view (where they are merged) and after sorting (which unmerged all merged cells). This leads to the situation where you have to decide between either putting in a very terse / abbreviated, which avoids the table blowing up in size during sorting, but is less clear to readers and wastes the space you gain from merged cells in the first place; or you use the space provided by a merged cell, but then sorting the table might increase the size a lot.

My current exhibit A for this is this table: Nikon_Z-mount#Z-mount_cameras

In the default sort the "DX (APS-C)" and "FX (full frame)" provides useful information. But if you sort the table, this increases the row height a ton and it would be better to just make it say "DX" or "FX" (for example).

=> Is there a template or a similar solution for this? Phiarc (talk) 16:07, 17 November 2024 (UTC)